light angle on faces

[Spellir_74]

Hi.

I'm reworking a vehicle model done by somebody else. [see image] There are many faces on the side of the vehicle. The "light angles" on those faces have been set already, so that the side of the 3D vehicle shows them as 'dark'.

I deleted one face from that side; I then "created" a new face in that space.

The new face's "light angle" (smoothing?) is not the same as the extant faces already there. [see image]

QUESTION:

How do I make that new face reflect light like the other faces already there?

I HAVE READ the tutorials here. This procedure I want to do-- while a very common important aspect of model making-- is not intuitive and not intuitively explained in the tutorials.

This is probably very easy to do. I have simply missed something simple and it's fouling me up.

Any help?

EDIT: I changed the image originally here to the better one below. The original didn't clarify the issue.

[Spellir_74]

This image here explains better what I'm getting at.

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The first example shows the deleted face from the model (which has already darkened side faces).

The second example shows the new face I created (by 'create- face'; then touching vertixes). But notice it is lit 'wrong'!

How do I light it like the faces already there?

(I posted two posts about this. You can tell I'm seriously in need of figuring this out. LOL)

[Pelgar]

I do not see your example image but your description makes me think you have not placed the new faces in the same smoothing group as the surrounding faces. Smoothing groups are in the Models tab. Select your new face then right click the smoothing group it should be in and click "Add selection to smoothing group".
If your smoothing groups are not named appropriately, which is often the case, you can find the group you need by R click and "Select Smoothing Group". 
If your model does not have smoothing groups or all faces are in one group; R click Smoothing Groups, click "New", select "New Smoothing Group".

Hope this helps.

[Pelgar]

That's really odd. As soon as I posted my reply your images popped in. Now that I can see them my answer was the correct one. You just need to assign your new faces to a smoothing group.

[Spellir_74]

Thanks.

BUT

If I create a smoothing group with that new face in it, that face will still be bright like it is in the image. _It will not turn dark like its neighbors._

I need to know how to make it dark, like it neighbors.

And how do I know what shade of 'dark' the already existing neighboring faces are?

The file I'm working with is an '.x'. There are no seen smoothing groups listed in the file.

[luuckyy]

Not sure if this is the right answer but ... try to apply the material your vehicle already has to the newly created face 
Because I think that your face is created with a kind of default material.

[siredblood]

I feel your pain, Ive had this same problem many, many times again, and no matter what I did it never worked out. I welded, added to groupe, added to smoothing groupe.... noting. So im looking forward to the answer.

[Rex]

Looks to me as if you're using FlatShading in the images....  Are those images in Flat or Smooth Shading....?

Try smooth shaded Render Mode, to get proper lighting on the face priimitives.

, and no matter what I did it never worked out. I welded, added to groupe, added to smoothing groupe.... noting.

Did you try adjusting the 'Threshold' level of the smoothing groups??  By default, they are set at like 89degrees...try adjusting your threshold value, .

[Spellir_74]

Not sure if this is the right answer but ... try to apply the material your vehicle already has to the newly created face 
Because I think that your face is created with a kind of default material.

Did that already, before I posted the first post.

Thanks.

[Pelgar]

If I create a smoothing group with that new face in it [see images above], that face will still be bright like it is in the image. _It will not turn dark like its neighbors._

You don't want a new smoothing group with just that face. You want to add that face to the smoothing group the surrounding faces are in.

I mentioned creating smoothing groups earlier because a lot of models are all in one smoothing group. In most cases you want different sections of the model in different smoothing groups.

Hope this helps

[Spellir_74]

Looks to me as if you're using FlatShading in the images....  Are those images in Flat or Smooth Shading....?

Smooth view. It is a hard edged vehicle.

siredblood
, and no matter what I did it never worked out. I welded, added to groupe, added to smoothing groupe.... nothing.

Did you try adjusting the 'Threshold' level of the smoothing groups??  By default, they are set at like 89degrees...try adjusting your threshold value, .

I fiddled with "smooth groups- properties- Threshold" before I came here. But it didn't just work out correctly. I suspect that that is the key though.

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I want to have the side angle be dark and have the top angle be light; hard edged (like the image). Ideally I want any new faces I create to become like the already-there side rather than having to do the whole side again in a new smoothing group with threshold angle reset.

[Spellir_74]

I feel your pain, Ive had this same problem many, many times again, and no matter what I did it never worked out. I welded, added to groupe, added to smoothing groupe.... noting. So im looking forward to the answer.

Try putting the whole side (the extant faces with the new face you made) in a new smoothing group and re setting the "smoothing groups- properties- Threshold".

Maybe that's the way to make a side dark.

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First the new face you made needs to have the material assigned to it and then needs to be UV mapped [the bottom choice in the pull down]. Remap the whole side again [planar or box X or Y].

Then put the whole side in a new smoothing group [since the old smoothing group is not there in the file.

Then set the threshold for that new smoothing group.

I hope that solves this.

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But I figure there is also something more to do in the UV mappers.

Obviously you guys must do a lot of figure animations and stuff and really don't work with hard edge shadows and stuff, that you're unable to see what I'm getting at here (along with 'siredblood').


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How does one know what the original "threshold" was set at? The old smoothing group that contained that face is not listed there in the file. The original file --like mine above-- simply had a side darker than the top or rear. But what threshold was it set at?

[Spellir_74]

If I create a smoothing group with that new face in it [see images above], that face will still be bright like it is in the image. _It will not turn dark like its neighbors._

You don't want a new smoothing group with just that face. You want to add that face to the smoothing group the surrounding faces are in.

There are no smoothing groups listed in this old .x file (as I said). (I am familiar with the fragmotion program.) Where do I find the extant smoothing group information, since it isn't listed where it should be in this .X file?

I mentioned creating smoothing groups earlier because a lot of models are all in one smoothing group. In most cases you want different sections of the model in different smoothing groups.

Yes.

I think the answer I want is  'smoothing group- properties- "threshold"'.

But what setting? (Improvise until it 'feels' right.)

But what else will I have to happen to make it go? (These things are never easy) ...

[Pelgar]

Your images have changed but in the originals I saw smoothing groups listed in the models pane, in the top right corner. There were two smoothing groups. My guess is that the top one had all faces in your original model in it and the second one had the new face you created. If this is the case you need to select the new face then Rclick the top smoothing group and add.
Rex is more experienced than I am and probably has a better understanding of thresholds. With that said I have never had to mess with thresholds to solve the problem you have. The new face will inherit the properties of the smoothing group you add it to.

If you are correct and the model does not have smoothing groups you need to create some. I would start by creating a new smoothing group then selecting all faces in my model and adding them to the new smoothing group. If you model does not have a texture material applied to it this step alone should clear up the light dark problem you have. If the model does have a texture material then map the new face to the existing texture.
Still assuming you are having to create your smoothing groups my next step would be to create smoothing groups for each section of the model. The barrel is a good place to start, create a smoothing group, select all faces in the barrel and add those faces to the new group.

[Spellir_74]

Your images have changed but in the originals I saw smoothing groups listed in the models pane, in the top right corner. There were two smoothing groups. My guess is that the top one had all faces in your original model in it and the second one had the new face you created.

No.

The image showed a file I had been screwing with for some time before I came here to ask a question. The smoothing groups shown were new ones I added to that old .x file. (This further convinces me that it is good that I took that previous image down.)

The model itself when I opened it had different lighting shades already applied to different angles but no smoothing groups information listed.

"(I am familiar with the fragmotion program.)"

If this is the case you need to select the new face then Rclick the top smoothing group and add.


Rex is more experienced than I am and probably has a better understanding of thresholds. With that said I have never had to mess with thresholds to solve the problem you have.

The new face will inherit the properties of the smoothing group you add it to.

If you are correct and the model does not have smoothing groups you need to create some.

If I grab all those faces and put them in new smoothing groups, they will lose their shade darkness and become like the newly created face(s) --bleached bright. I don't want this. I want to make my beached bright new faces dark shaded and hard edged.

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If your model does not have a texture material applied to it this step alone should clear up the light dark problem you have. If the model does have a texture material then map the new face to the existing texture.

"(I am familiar with the fragmotion program.)"

Applying a material does not change the shading (dark/bright) of the "primitive".